- [Mary] I'm Mary Parker,

and welcome to this episode
of Eureka's Sounds of Science.

(upbeat music)

(upbeat music)

It's coming up on earth day,

and this year, we have some
interesting data to consider.

During the global pandemic,

many countries, all but shut down,

travel dropped precipitously.

Many people stopped commuting,

and large gatherings were
almost entirely canceled.

This led to a noticeable decrease

in air pollution in many areas.

In fact, according to data reported

by the European Space Agency last June,

COVID-19's effect on air quality
could be seen from space.

This does not mean that climate change

has been noticeably affected.

Industrial operations are still
a big factor in air quality.

Many people want to return to
previously normal activities

as soon as possible,

and we are all still heading
towards a tipping point

for global climate change.

But we can learn from this data.

Here to discuss the ongoing
trend towards sustainability

are Gregg Belardo,

Senior Director of
Corporate Sustainability

for Charles River,

and Erik Mohn, Director of
America Sustainability Services

at Schneider Electric.

Welcome Gregg and Erik.

- [Gregg] Welcome great to be here.

- [Erik] Thanks, glad to be here as well.

- [Mary] Yeah, thank you guys for coming.

So to get us started,
what do each of you see

as the lessons learned from lockdown

in terms of sustainability?

Oh Gregg, why don't you start.

(laughing)

- [Gregg] You know what?

I saw that as a softball question.

I'm like, let me go.
(laughing)

- [Mary] Absolutely, far away.

- [Gregg] Sorry, Erik.

So to me, or what we learned from lockdown

is a little bit of the
world of possibility,

and maybe how we wanna do things

a little bit differently moving forward.

Of course we don't want to
operate where there's no travel,

everybody is working
remotely all the time,

but we did see the dramatic benefits

of a lower carbon footprint.

I think it was roughly a 17% reduction

in greenhouse gas emissions

that were attributed to the
slow down during the pandemic.

That's not how we wanted
to achieve those reductions

but certainly we saw,

I think it was the
mountains in Los Angeles

for the first time in 20 years or so

that this model could clear it up.

And we realized that we can reduce

our greenhouse gas emissions
and clean up our air

even more quickly than we're doing it.

So I do think we'll start to see

more remote work moving forward,

probably more of a hybrid model,

people still need socialization.

People are not necessarily having

to live in the town in which
they work all the time.

A lot of things that
were done face-to-face,

a lot of sales calls.

I have friends of mine that
were on planes all the time

and they realized we just
don't need to do this.

- [Mary] And Erik, can you weigh in?

And can you also tell us a little bit

about Schneider Electric

and the perspective
that you're coming from?

- [Erik] Sure, thanks.

And as I said, I
appreciate the opportunity

to join you all on this podcast today.

And as I mentioned, I'm
with Snyder Electric

in addition to being a
global manufacturing company

that produces electronics equipment,

basically supports all aspects
of the energy infrastructure.

My group, the group that I'm sitting with

in the energy, supply and
sustainability business

really focuses on consulting

around topics of sustainability,
energy management,

energy efficiency, and climate change.

So certainly, we've
got our own perspective

in terms of how it's impacted our business

and our way of working.

Like Gregg, I'm an optimist.

And I think if anything,
it's sort of opened our eyes

to many of the opportunities

and sort of challenged the way in which

we've always gone about and done things.

But given that we also work
in the consulting space

and interact with a number

of different client
organizations around the globe,

we obviously know that it has
impacted all organizations

in the same way.

I largely agree with Gregg

that changes in the way
in which we communicate,

changes in the way in which we assume

a need for physical presence

either in an office or in
a meeting or in a hotel

or on an airplane.

We're definitely gonna be
things that we'll carry with us.

In terms of immediate
impacts to climate change

and to global emissions footprint,

we think about things
like business travel.

That's probably the most
pronounced impact that we'll see

in numbers that folks are reporting out on

for 2020, for instance.

We work with a number of
folks in commercial businesses

whether it's banking or
sales or things like that.

We've seen 90 plus percent drops

on your reliance on things like air travel

and which, as you might know

has a significant greenhouse
gas emission footprint.

Gregg alluded to cars
and commuting earlier

but even more broadly
thinking about business travel

by rental cars, with owned
fleets and sales vehicles

that are out there on the roads.

I know my morning commute in the mornings

when I have gotten out and
ventured into the office

has been considerably lighter
than we've experienced.

And so mobility is certainly an area

that we've seen impacts and
probably some lessons learned

that will retain into the
new normal as everyone says.

I think though, as well,
Gregg's point around hot desks

and virtual working environments
and things like that,

that's a challenge and an
opportunity for all organizations.

So the need to create safe, well lit

and well conditioned spaces

for population that may vary in the future

I think is a challenge that
organizations will wrestle with.

How tight or how lean can
we get with real estate now

while still allowing for those needs

to get together virtually.

But I think as well, we'll
see elimination of it

in the retail sector, for instance,

an industry that was already
undergoing massive shifts

towards e-commerce and mobile
shopping and online shopping

and things of that nature.

Clearly we've seen an
acceleration of that over 2020

and maybe some of those
shopping trends remain.

I know I can speak for my family.

There's folks in my family who were eager

to get back to the mall
or get back to a store.

But for others of us,

we're perfectly happy to
continue shopping online

and having goods and
services arrived to our door

rather than needing to get into a car

or go into a building for them.

- [Mary] Yeah, absolutely.

And sorry for my dog barking.

I don't know what he's so upset about.

So this one is for both of you.

Do you think that the trend
towards working from home,

maybe traveling less only
when it's strictly necessary

and things like that,
are those going to have

a noticeable impact on climate change

in the sense that kind of
every little bit helps?

- [Erik] I think it's fair to say

that every little bit does help.

And how little that little bit is

definitely depends on the industry

or the sector that you're in.

So speaking for folks in a
manufacturing or in a products,

manufacturing consumer
products type of footprint.

You know, when we think about things

like business travel emissions,

or we think about employee
commuting emissions

and things like that,

they largely pale in comparison

to some of the other more higher
magnitude emissions streams

either the businesses own
scope one and two footprint,

the fuels they burn or the
electricity that they consume.

But it definitely does count,

and it definitely does matter.

You think of other organizations

that may be very service-focused.

So organizations that may
be out in people's homes

or in offices providing
services or doing work.

In those cases,

I think we could see
some significant changes

in the emissions footprint
and trajectory moving forward.

- [Mary] Yeah, absolutely.

Gregg, what do you think
would be the impact

from kind of a corporate
sustainability angle?

- [Gregg] Well, I agree with Erik.

Certainly every little bit helps

anywhere we can reduce
our GHGs, that is helpful.

I think we've all gotten
much, much more comfortable

with the Zoom calls, video
calls, Microsoft Teams calls.

And I think that will
replace to some degree

travel moving forward.

But certainly we won't not travel at all

and that will come back to some degree,

but I do think it will be
less than it was before.

- [Erik] I think each organization

as they've had the opportunity
to look at their facilities

without product going out the door,

without people in the offices,

without product moving down
conveyors and things like that

has gotten to assess what
sort of base load looks like.

Historically, we've looked at things like

holiday breaks in the winter time

or maybe there's a summertime
shutdown of a factory

and you start to wonder,

okay, why are the lights
in the warehouse still on?

Or why is the air compressor still running

and things like that.

This provided really almost
a 10 to 11 month period

for a lot of organizations

of really looking at
their buildings and saying

what needs to be left on.

For whom do we need to
leave what lights on,

and how can we continue to occupy a space

in a safe and productive way,

but one in which we minimize our costs,

we minimize our emissions footprint,

we minimize our energy footprint.

And so I think it's
provided an alternative view

of looking at the way we
utilize our facilities

that really start to treat buildings

more as services that meet a need

rather than assets that
were sort of committed to

one way or the other.

And so I think it's an
interesting paradigm shift

in the way organizations are looking

at their footprint during this period.

- [Mary] That actually segues in nicely.

So for both of you, do you think
that lockdown had an effect

on company's sustainability goals?

You know, either positive or negative?

- [Gregg] Certainly for Charles River.

We have moved forward,

we had announced right before lockdown

our scope one and two GHG goals.

During lockdown, we announced
the scope three goal

and then they were all approved,

science-based targets
and they were approved.

And I believe Erik, during
the lockdown period,

the amount of companies
that we're proposing

and getting approval for
science-based targets increased.

In fact, I think this was the
most within the last year.

So it hasn't slowed things down.

If anything, companies
have been charging ahead

even stronger than before.

- [Erik] Yeah, that's
absolutely correct, Gregg.

One of the things that we
sort of held our breath on

at the very early onset of
the pandemic and the lockdowns

was really how much attention

is this going to absolutely,
rightly and appropriately hole

from other topics that
organizations are looking at

whether it's sustainability,

whether it's other aspects
of environmental, social,

and governance topics.

But to your point, Gregg,
despite dealing with the acute

and immediate impacts, both
physical, psychological,

social of the pandemic,

organizations have continued

to maintain their commitment to

and even double down on their commitments

around sustainability.

So whether that's a record number

of more than I think 150,
200 new organizations

joining the science-based
targets initiative

or reporting to the
carbon disclosure project

being up 13% year on year.

I think what we had
initially thought might be

a bit of a step back or a
reshift in focus or priorities

actually ended up being a
bit of an inflection point

for the overall climate crisis.

That if anything hasn't gone away,

it's been brought front of mind of,

oh, actually our businesses,

our organizations do need
to think about resiliency,

they do need to think about risk.

And the pandemic is one of many ways

of reminding organizations of that.

- [Mary] Maybe it did actually.

Do you think it actually helped people

start thinking in that way

and thinking more long-term
about their very real impact

on the earth and on their environment?

- [Erik] I think the
pandemic certainly put things

in perspective and in two key ways.

One is around the interconnectedness

of what we all experienced

as part of being a global population.

Think the pandemic really
helped illustrate that

in a way that felt more
theoretical or abstract

when we think about the time horizons

that climate change typically takes.

And then the second point
is around that timescale.

So when we think about climate change,

certainly, we're feeling immediate

and near-term impacts of climate change

but it's going to take not
just a few months to solve

or even a year to solve,

but the climate change battle
is gonna be more of a slog.

And so you think about the
type of long-term commitments

to organizations such as
Charles River Laboratories

and others are taking.

We're talking 20, 30
and beyond time horizon.

So we certainly don't need to wait,

we don't need to use
distractions of the day-to-day

as an opportunity to focus elsewhere.

But it's definitely a long
game we're playing here

and I think the pandemic
helps us think more long-term

and more global.

- [Mary] You both mentioned
science-based targets.

Can you talk a little
bit about what that is?

- [Erik] Gregg, you want me
to take a stab at that one

or you wanna go with it? (laughing)

- [Gregg] Why don't you

and I'll do some color
commentary on top of it.

How about sounds perfect?

(laughing)
- [Erik] Sounds perfect.

So at its core, science-based
targets are those

in the greenhouse gas management

or climate change community
that are developed

based on scientific consensus

that global temperature
rise needs to be limited

to no more than 1 1/2 degrees

of pre-industrial level averages

in order to mitigate and minimize

the most deleterious
impacts of climate change.

So it outlines reduction pathways,

ambition reduction percentages
that need to be adhered to

in order to say that
your climate change goal

that your emissions reduction target

is align with what science is saying

is needed by the global committee.

- [Gregg] Yeah and I think
that's a significant development.

Certainly if we go back 20 years ago

when corporations were first
setting GHG reduction goals,

really most of those were intensity-based

and normalized to sales.

So the ratio would get better

less GHGs per dollar of revenue,

but the impact on the environment

would probably be still increasing

albeit at maybe a slower rate.

So really now and that was a start,

but we know with science-based targets,

we're doing something that
is meaningful and impactful.

So for Charles River, it
was very important for us.

We really wanted to set
science-based targets

and working with Schneider
Electric, we were able to do so.

- [Mary] Okay, so can you
describe some measures

that companies can take
to make a real dent

in their climate impact?

- [Erik] The two heaviest
hitters that we see consistently

are obviously energy efficiency.

So reducing and mitigating
the demand for energy

and the emissions at that
causes across organizations.

That's always a great
first place to start.

'Cause generally speaking,
a reduction in energy

also a lesser reduction in costs as well.

So there's typically mutual benefits

and a lot of win-win scenarios there.

But that only goes so far.

We need to go beyond
just reducing what we use

and actually starting to
decouple energy consumption

and decouple business
growth from emissions.

And that really starts to rely

on things like renewable energy.

So yes, I'm still using
electricity hopefully,

considerably less than I used to use.

But now I'm also ensuring
that what remains

I'm greening up by
renewable energy investment,

by onsite solar, by wind power
and things of that nature.

And so those are the two
big or heavy hitters.

Beyond that,

we're getting into vehicles
and fleet and biofuels.

We're looking at things like value chain

and supplier emissions
reduction and travel

and virtual business lines

instead of physical business
lines, things like that.

So I think it's really,

there's two big categories

where we see the majority of commitments

and activity thus far.

- [Gregg] Yeah, I
completely agree with Erik.

And for Charles River,

we're focused first on broadly
speaking, sustainable design.

So we're looking to design our buildings,

our new buildings and our
retrofits to be more sustainable,

to be more inherently safe as well.

And we've backed that up

with a $5 million annual
capital sustainability fund.

So that is for projects that
might not otherwise get funded.

We've challenged our facilities

to become much more
energy efficient by 2030

as part of our efforts to achieve

that 50% GHG reduction goal
for our own facilities,

for the facilities we operate.

But as Erik said, we won't
get our energy use to zero.

So part two of that is
looking to be more sustainable

in terms of the fuels that
we use and the energy we use,

and really the place that most
companies go is electricity.

And we're looking at virtual
power purchase agreements.

We've signed a deal.

There'll be some significant
announcements in April

to source renewable electricity

for all of our North American facilities

for the next 15 years.

So this is really, really positive for us.

And we'll be getting the
renewable energy certificates

from a project in Texas.

So this is fantastic.

And we're working right
now on Europe as well.

We're going to market,

and we'll look to you
hopefully signed a deal

by the end of this year,

probably have something
come online in 2024 or so.

And soon as we figure out Europe,

we'll move to Asia-Pac.

So that's a key piece for us
of our GHG reduction strategy,

reduce energy use, and then
green up our electricity.

- [Mary] Yeah, it's funny you talk

about building in these efficiencies

because it's always worth noting that

for a company like Charles River,

it's not a matter of just
swapping out one led bulb

for another that's more efficient.

You have to still adhere
to laboratory standards,

and depending on what type of lab you are,

they might be quite stringent.

So factoring that in as well
as the efficiency savings

can be very tricky but
also really interesting.

- [Gregg] Yeah, and
one great thing is that

all of our engineers, all
of our project managers

in all of the outside any
firms that we partner with

are delighted with this effort.

They're 100% on board,

and they're eager to
identify opportunities for us

to be more sustainable.

So it's been fantastic,

and I can say really now
it's part of our culture

we design sustainability in.

- [Mary] Well, thank
you so much both of you

for joining me for this.

It was really nice chatting with you

and it makes me do feel
a little bit more hopeful

about the direction that
we're all heading in now.

- [Gregg] Thank you,
pleasure to be here, Mary.

- [Erik] Absolutely, my pleasure as well.

- [Mary] Thank you.
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